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Andrew Sullivan: "The Impact on Gays" ("Rove understood American psyche better than I did")
andrewsullivan.com ^ | Nov. 3 04 | Andrew Sullivan

Posted on 11/03/2004 9:56:55 AM PST by churchillbuff

THE IMPACT ON GAYS: I've been trying to think of what to say about what appears to be the enormous success the Republicans had in using gay couples' rights to gain critical votes in key states. In eight more states now, gay couples have no relationship rights at all. Their legal ability to visit a spouse in hospital, to pass on property, to have legal protections for their children has been gutted. If you are a gay couple living in Alabama, you know one thing: your family has no standing under the law; and it can and will be violated by strangers. I'm not surprised by this. When you put a tiny and despised minority up for a popular vote, the minority usually loses. But it is deeply, deeply dispiriting nonetheless. A lot of gay people are devastated this morning, and terrified. We have seen, and not for the first time, how using fear of a minority can be so effective a tool in building a political movement. The single most important issue for Republican voters, according to exit polls, was not the war on terror or Iraq or the economy. It was "moral values." Karl Rove understood the American psyche better than I did. By demonizing gay couples, the Republicans were able to bring in whole swathes of new anti-gay believers into their party. With new senators Jim DeMint and Tom Coburn, two of the most anti-gay politicians in America, we can only brace ourselves for what is now coming.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: barebacker; bitterbarebacker; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; stdfactory; values
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1 posted on 11/03/2004 9:56:57 AM PST by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff

Really? You mean Karl Rove actually does something besides staring at another man's rear-end all day?
Imagine what you'll see when you change your view, Andrea.


2 posted on 11/03/2004 9:57:54 AM PST by mabelkitty (Blackwell for Governor in 2006!!!)
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To: churchillbuff

The story was not about gays at all. It was about security. "Gays" simply assisted with the popular vote. "security" assisted the wins in Ohio and Florida. Jeeze, Andrew, you used to be good at this.


3 posted on 11/03/2004 9:58:15 AM PST by mudblood
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To: churchillbuff
Karl Rove understood the American psyche better than I did.

Who doesn't...?

4 posted on 11/03/2004 9:58:38 AM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle (I feel more and more like a revolted Charlton Heston, witnessing ape society for the very first time)
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To: churchillbuff

Poor Andrew. His entire life revolves around his sex life.


5 posted on 11/03/2004 9:58:46 AM PST by MamaLucci (Libs, want answers on 911? Ask Clinton why he met with Monica more than with his CIA director.)
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To: churchillbuff

Sorry, Andrew. Nobody's "demonizing gays" -- or at least the Republican Party isn't. Standing up for the traditional definition of marriage isn't "demonizing" anyone. To the contrary, you're doing the "demonizing" by hurling the slur of bigotry (because that's what you're implying by the "d" word) at people who want marriage to remain as it has since its inception.


6 posted on 11/03/2004 9:59:14 AM PST by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff

Sullivan needs to get a grip on something other than his pillow. America doesn't want rampant, unapologetic homosexuality; if Sullivan wants that he can go to France.


7 posted on 11/03/2004 9:59:18 AM PST by thoughtomator (First, let's shoot all the lawyers)
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To: mabelkitty

the extreme homosexual activist left doesn't realize the more they try and shove their lifestyle down America's throat the more drastic the rejection. If they'd just abide by the old "don't ask, don't tell" and been content with civil unions vs. demanding a rewrite of marriage, they'd not have themselves to blame and, instead, have to subject themselves to logical subsitutions for their losses.


8 posted on 11/03/2004 9:59:55 AM PST by Steven W.
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To: churchillbuff

From an earlier post.

Washington Blade ^ | 11/03/04 | Chris Crain
Perhaps the most surprising news for gay observers of the presidential election is that exit polls show President Bush received the exact same percentage of gay votes — 23 percent — as he did four years ago. This despite the president's vocal support for a federal constitutional amendment banning gay marraige. According to the CNN exit poll, 4 percent of all voters identified as gay, lesbian or bisexual, the same percentage as four years ago, at least as reported by ABC News that year. By comparison, 11 percent of voters were black, 9 percent were Latino, 2 percent were Asian...


9 posted on 11/03/2004 10:00:01 AM PST by peyton randolph (Time for Bush to pack the U.S. Supremes)
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To: churchillbuff

Sullivan sure has become a one-note Nancy.

He should rename his site "Queer Eye for the Conservative Guy."


10 posted on 11/03/2004 10:00:17 AM PST by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: churchillbuff

Queers have the same marriage rights as the rest of us: the right to marry a member of the opposite sex.


The rest is spin and filthy propaganda and a pack of lies.


11 posted on 11/03/2004 10:00:18 AM PST by Petronski (Kerry cannot have lost....the Redskins won on Sunday!)
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To: churchillbuff
Dear Andrew

You dream of other men's rectums

There is probably a lot of stuff that Karl Rove understands better than you

12 posted on 11/03/2004 10:00:25 AM PST by jscd3
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To: mudblood
The story was not about gays at all. It was about security."""

Wrong. Look at the "internals" of the exit polls. Values -- abortion, marriage, cultural issues - ranked at or near the top for a large proportion of voters, and those voters went with the GOP. It's these issues, for example, that put Thune over the top in South Dakota.

13 posted on 11/03/2004 10:00:40 AM PST by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff

What children? Hello? Buy yourself a biology book Andrew. Some children of heterosexuals get unlucky enough to be stuck in homes where adults are immoral. They get the same gov't attention that children of single parents get.


14 posted on 11/03/2004 10:00:53 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Legislatures are so outdated. If you want real political victory, take your issue to court.)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: mabelkitty
You mean Karl Rove actually does something besides staring at another man's rear-end all day?

You know what they say, if you're not the lead-dog, the view never changes. ;)

16 posted on 11/03/2004 10:01:33 AM PST by January24th
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To: churchillbuff

Dear Andrew;

Blow out your backside, sweetie.


17 posted on 11/03/2004 10:02:20 AM PST by CFC__VRWC (It's not evidence of wrongdoing just because Democrats don't like the outcome.)
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To: churchillbuff

Homosexuals: crawl back into your sewers and take your agenda with you.


18 posted on 11/03/2004 10:02:25 AM PST by JesseHousman (Execute Mumia Abu-Jamal)
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To: mabelkitty

This guy is just another out of touch pundit not looking for answers from the people but blame.


19 posted on 11/03/2004 10:02:27 AM PST by Shermy
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To: mudblood

Talk about fuhking up! The status quo was better for gays than what they got now. Sometimes it is best to leave well enough alone. If the gay would be satisfied with tolerance, things would be okay, but they want ACCEPTANCE! Acceptance whether you want to accept them or not. Repudiation is what they got instead.


20 posted on 11/03/2004 10:02:35 AM PST by speed_addiction (Ninja's last words, "Hey guys. Watch me just flip out on that big dude over there!")
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To: Steven W.

I was thinking that the whole issue of sodomy at the USSC decision, the unfortunate Catholic infestation, and the demand to adopt children will force them to do just that.
Americans have spoken. They do not want Ancient Rome.


21 posted on 11/03/2004 10:02:35 AM PST by mabelkitty (Blackwell for Governor in 2006!!!)
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To: CFC__VRWC
Sorry, meant to say,

Blow it out your backside, sweetie.

22 posted on 11/03/2004 10:03:13 AM PST by CFC__VRWC (It's not evidence of wrongdoing just because Democrats don't like the outcome.)
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To: thoughtomator

When a gay journalist "braces" for something, does he bend over and grab his ankles, or what?


23 posted on 11/03/2004 10:03:14 AM PST by ReadyNow (When you see the eye, expect a lie!)
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To: mabelkitty

More proof that gays just think with their anus....


24 posted on 11/03/2004 10:03:29 AM PST by Stellar Dendrite (How do you ask a goose to be the last goose to die in Ohio?)
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To: peyton randolph

Taxpayers and property owners who actually know how to set up an estate and a trust. No shock here.


25 posted on 11/03/2004 10:03:39 AM PST by mabelkitty (Blackwell for Governor in 2006!!!)
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To: churchillbuff
"In eight more states now, gay couples have no relationship rights at all..."

Except of course the exact same rights that all other men and women have. Sheesh, how droll!

JWinNC

26 posted on 11/03/2004 10:03:47 AM PST by JWinNC
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To: churchillbuff
"Their legal ability to visit a spouse in hospital, to pass on property, to have legal protections for their children has been gutted."

Get a grip, Andy. It's up to YOU to bestow power-of-attorney to your "friend". It's up to YOU to write a will. It's up to YOU to prepare a guardianship for your kids.

You think normal people don't have relatives and ex-spouses they despise? Do what we do - get an attorney. Sheesh!

27 posted on 11/03/2004 10:03:58 AM PST by Gingersnap
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To: churchillbuff

So it turns out that Andrew is a homo first and an american second....


28 posted on 11/03/2004 10:04:15 AM PST by Cogadh na Sith (--Scots Gaelic: 'War or Peace'--)
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To: January24th

LOL!!


29 posted on 11/03/2004 10:04:33 AM PST by mabelkitty (Blackwell for Governor in 2006!!!)
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To: CFC__VRWC

Who's Andrew? He's either invisible, or might be some kind of fairy.


30 posted on 11/03/2004 10:05:04 AM PST by JesseHousman (Execute Mumia Abu-Jamal)
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To: churchillbuff

"security/gays"

I've looked at the internals of the much propped-up exit polls. Nonetheless, I feel strongly that the majority vote came from family values, but the wins in Ohio and Florida were mainly for Bush's leadership in the war on terror. Every dem I know who voted for Bush (including yours, though I'm now an "independent"). Despite feeling less angry about the gay issue than most freepers, I still consider it a victory for the states that they voted on the measures themselves, and that they are unanimous.


31 posted on 11/03/2004 10:05:23 AM PST by mudblood
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To: churchillbuff
ohmygawd... what a bunch of BLOODY TRIPE from Mr. Sullivan. This IS NOT TRUE. Who loves lawyers MORE than the gay movement? So FINE! Get your lawyers together and do a package deal for gays in re hospital rights, inheritance, etc.

When the dems and lawyers blewout natural "inheritance" rights for "straights"... Straights got together and began hammering out "living wills".

GROW THE HELL UP!

32 posted on 11/03/2004 10:05:50 AM PST by Alia
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To: churchillbuff

I think many blacks resent having the gay issue associated with civil rights.... I know that had something to do with this defeat....


33 posted on 11/03/2004 10:06:17 AM PST by mrsjones
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To: churchillbuff

Andrew, Andrew, Andrew. You STILL don't get it. We (most of us) are NOT demonizing you. Who knows if you'd not tried to LEGISLATE morality via the Massachusetts Supreme Court, things might have worked out differently over time. You cannot FORCE Americans to give up their values- and no- that is NOT code for hating gays.

As far as I'm concerned- you could have civil unions...with rights etc. But do NOT try calling it marriage. That's like saying an airplane is really a boat- it defies reason and observation. Marriage IS a boy-girl thing.

Get over your paranoia and knock the chip off- most of us don't HATE you.

I'm po'ed when you act like jerks- don't care a whit if you're gay jerks.


34 posted on 11/03/2004 10:06:55 AM PST by SE Mom (Happy RedSox Republican!)
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To: Stellar Dendrite
keep your degenerate lifestyle out of our faces and away from kids and society might have rewarded you with domestic partnerships. but you people tried to destroy the scouts, teach kids about anal sex in 4th grade and repeatedly attack our churches. you destroyed many christian organizations with your gay filth. the backlash is coming. time to get back into the closet.
35 posted on 11/03/2004 10:07:04 AM PST by glennherman
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To: churchillbuff

Here's a fun fact that Sullivan doesn't talk about: President Bush got the same percentage of gays in 2004 as in 2000: 23%. Looks like some gays are not obseessed with their own sexuality, and are amenable to reason with regard to issues such as national security.


36 posted on 11/03/2004 10:07:08 AM PST by BCrago66
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To: churchillbuff

Look, it is just time for gays to take their sex life back into their bedrooms and to STOP DEMANDING that the rest of us approve of their life style. WE Don't approve and we just want them to shut up about their sex lives. If they think they have no rights as Americans then they should take a long hard look at the rest of the world and the 'rights' they offer. GOD BLESS AMERICA!


37 posted on 11/03/2004 10:07:18 AM PST by Woogit (IN GOD I TRUST...NO MATTER WHAT!)
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To: churchillbuff
I am sick and tired of the homosexual agenda trying to equate their abnormal and immoral behavior with the civil rights agenda. I don't want to know what a man does in his bedroom with another man or with a woman.

How dare these people say they are discriminated based on their sexual choice. I said choice b/c when a baby is boren the Ob/Gyn says it's a boy or girl not a homosexual. Let's examine the root cause and not look at surface issues.

I am not a homophobe either I don't have an irrational fear of homosexual behavior or activities, I just don't condone it or think it should be taught to children.

38 posted on 11/03/2004 10:07:33 AM PST by Warrior Nurse (George W Bush has a spine of tempered steel...Zell Miller)
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To: churchillbuff

If there is fear of homosexuals, it is because they placed the institution of traditional marriage under attack. That fear was propagated by activist homosexuals and their surrogates in activist courts. Especially, the Supreme Court in Massachusettes, and Mayor Newsom in San Francisco. They woke up the whole nation to the threat we face.

Gay marriage will soon be a settled matter, it will then be up to each state to pass whatever type of civil union law it likes, if any. There will be no issues or discussion relevant to gays at the national level. Threat over, topic over. Unfortunately the death of this issue will mean the removal of a huge political advantage for Republicans...


39 posted on 11/03/2004 10:07:38 AM PST by Mount Athos
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To: churchillbuff
There will be no retribution to gays; no pitchfork brigade marching on San Francisco. Bush has no interest in any of that and neither does most evangelicals. If gays could keep to themselves, gay marriage would have had little political bite.

Andrew you still don't get it.
40 posted on 11/03/2004 10:08:03 AM PST by playball0
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To: churchillbuff

That's because he knows right from wrong.


41 posted on 11/03/2004 10:08:09 AM PST by MHT
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To: Steven W.

Exactly. People accept their own gay family members, and gay friends and acquaintances; they just don't want to hear about it on every TV show and film.

BTW, the president got the same amout of gay votes as in the 2000 election. I personally know many gay Republicans who support our president.


42 posted on 11/03/2004 10:09:09 AM PST by DLfromthedesert ("Don't be an economic girlie-man" Ah-nuld)
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To: churchillbuff

The last time I checked, homosexuals have precisely the same marriage prerogatives as heterosexuals. I'd advise Sullivan to take his ridiculous sentiments and cram them, but he'd probably take me up on it and call it a relationship.


43 posted on 11/03/2004 10:09:28 AM PST by Mr Ramsbotham ("Ich glaube, du hast in die hosen geschissen!")
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To: churchillbuff

Andrew, go suck an egg. [Oh, wait, nevermind]


44 posted on 11/03/2004 10:09:29 AM PST by Joe Miner
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To: churchillbuff
CAPTION ROVE
45 posted on 11/03/2004 10:09:42 AM PST by NetSurfer (Funny thing about the election? IT'S THE MORALITY, STUPID.)
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To: mabelkitty

How can a woman leave millions to her dog(really happened) but a homosexual can not figure out how to leave his money to another man? What a bunch of bull. I guess homosexuals aren't as educated as we have been led to believe..


46 posted on 11/03/2004 10:09:52 AM PST by ethical
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To: churchillbuff
Their legal ability to visit a spouse in hospital, to pass on property, to have legal protections for their children has been gutted.

This is not true. There's a piece of legal paper for everything in this world.

Medical powers of attorney, business and financial powers of attorney, Living Wills and other legal documents can cover just about everything.

The part about not being able to pass on property is asinine.

For people who jointly own property, the rights of survivorship are written into every Deed.

And if you want to leave property to somebody else, make a freaking Will!!

47 posted on 11/03/2004 10:10:27 AM PST by Old Lady
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To: churchillbuff

Ellen DeGeneres was interviewed in Parade " if anything happened to me I would like to know my partner would be taken care of." hello, it is called a will. take care of her yourself, rich lady. (and Hollywood types spend a lot on lawyers and pre-nups to make sure their partners don't get taken care of too well). You can also sign power of attorney, legal guardianship for your children, all sorts of legal arrangements.

And yes there are plenty of legal and government benefits that homosexuals don't get. But they can make many arrangements if they exert themselves a bit.


48 posted on 11/03/2004 10:10:59 AM PST by heartwood
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To: churchillbuff
It is really quite simple. Americans are starting to awake from a long slumber and say NO. This is really only the beginning we must continue to say no loudly. This race was one only because Evangelicals are finally standing up to take back what is ours. We must continue to fight and stop the downward spiral. God Bless America!
49 posted on 11/03/2004 10:11:04 AM PST by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: churchillbuff

Gee, maybe we took a look at the slope and what was at the bottom of it: "relationship rights" for child molesters, beastialists, polyamorists, etc., and took a quick step back.


50 posted on 11/03/2004 10:11:10 AM PST by Little Ray (John Ffing sKerry: Just a gigolo!)
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