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To: PAR35

oh, yes, you're right. I have that part of history quite fuzzy, that's what I meant with "I think", so 100 years is not so much. Anyway you agree they took advantage (uh, gentlemen advantage, sorry) of us being in a war... if it was napoleonic or succession is a mcguffin, doesn't alter the essence of what I've said, what I knew is that it was along one of our wars. How nice...

You seem to have it weak too when it falls out of the source you've checked. If with switching sides you mean that they invaded us (breaking a treaty that allowed them to cross spain to attack portugal) and put a king (Jose,pepe for the friends) that was family of Napoleon then I agree... but I don't think you meant that... have you ever wondered why in english you use a spanish word to name "guerrilla"? maybe because we started that strategy against the romans (those that you call "italians") first and napoleon after?

half spain was moor for several centuries but you miss a point because of your culture... when we recovered the peninsula from the moors we didn't kill 90% and circle the rest like you did with the american natives. People just kept living in the same place under another sovereignity, and another religion so the descendants of the moors ARE still leaving there. That way of invading is why when you go to south america you see natives everywhere and in the US... uh, where are they? oh yes, in the land that no one wanted... well, they are UNDER the land too...

Romans did the same, so the spanish now living there are a mixture of the original visigots, fenitians (those that you call "lebanese"), romans, moors and a "touch" of northern spaniards... moorish have been the most of time so the most of their DNA is moorish...

I've never been able to see the difference between my grandfather (whose family was 100% rooted in granada) and a moor... I suppose that's why when he came to Barcelona people nicknamed him as "the moor" and why in winter I'm white like Bush(my father's family, catalan) and in summer I'm darker than Collin Powell (my mother's family, andalusian).

Moreover, if you ever go to Gibraltar you'll see people speak spanish (not english) and cross every week the border to visit family... they even keep the strong andalusian accent of the area...

Believe me, doesn't matter how good is Encarta, you shouldn't pretend to give lessons to the locals about these things... even if their history is weak.

I know 1 zillion times more american history than any average spanish but that doesn't put me in the level of going into discussion with an american citizen.

Historically, ours is the strongest claim but for your surprise I support Gibraltar being brit, and I do it simply because that's what people there want... You can go to Ceuta and Melilla and ask to people if they are spanish or moorish and... start to run...

77 posted on 10/05/2005 4:25:12 PM PDT by Spanishguy
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To: Spanishguy
At Talfalgar, there were 13 Spanish ships of the line, the largest having 112 guns. (Almost twice as many as the largest American ship of that era.) One more had 100 guns, two had 80 and all but one of the rest were 74s. The French had more (18) but the fourlargest was only 80 guns each. The rest were standard 74s. So the Spanish were active participants on the French side at that point.

As for the open border between Gibraltar and Spain, I remember the many years that the border was blocked before the UK joined the EU.

Finally, with regard to your comments about the Native Americans, some tribes handled the situation better than others. A lot of folks in the southeast, for example, have Cherokee blood. Before integration, they freely attended white schools.

78 posted on 10/05/2005 5:13:45 PM PDT by PAR35
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