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The Day I Asked a Question and Got The MOTHER of All Answers
7/28/2009 | Vanity

Posted on 07/28/2009 1:00:50 PM PDT by MissTickly

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To: hoosiermama; Beckwith; null and void; stockpirate; george76; PhilDragoo; Candor7; MeekOneGOP; ...
THEREFORE, since they are legal equals: No one is obliged to offer any proof at all of an amended certificate’s existence when they ask this exact question:

“Is the Director of Health for the State of Hawai’i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, able to state they have verified that the Hawai’i State Department of Health has President Barack Obama’s AMENDED original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures?”

Thanks, hoosiermama; interesting idea, indeed.

41 posted on 07/28/2009 2:23:45 PM PDT by LucyT
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To: MissTickly

One must understand the complexities of Hawaii's birth certificate history and laws to grasp the following (sorry if it seems confusing -- it IS confusing):

To have a FULL accounting, the "birth certificate" is NOT enough. The ENTIRE "birth record" on file with the Secretary of Health Vital Statistics Office, as well as any archived files with the former "Secretary of Hawaii" (as was the procedure under the Organic Act of 1900), should be examined to determine if a “Late Birth Certificate” with modifications, or a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” is present or has been archived away from the "vault copy."

It seems like Hawaii makes a clear distinction between the short-form, Certification of Live Birth, and the "longer, but not long form," Certificate of Live Birth from what they call a "standard birth certificate," which is Hawaii's long-form, Certificate of Live Birth, or the Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, or any complete, original Birth Certificate, or Certificate of Birth (same thing) issued BY ANOTHER STATE OR COUNTRY at the time of birth, signed by the attending doctor, parent(s), and so on.

From my understanding of the Law, there is a big difference between having a "standard birth certificate" on record AND a late registration, Certificate of Live Birth, which is substituted (but is not a substitute) for a nonexistent "standard birth certificate."

According to Vital Records:

A request to amend a Certificate of Live Birth will, however, be considered to be and treated as an application with the Department of Health for registration of a late certificate of birth in current use, unless a standard birth certificate for that person already exists in the vital records of the Department of Health.

If there is a standard birth certificate on record, and the approval is given to amend it with an application for a new Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, THEN the original, standard birth certificate is put in an envelope and sealed, and the existing birth record is updated -- but, it is definitely NOT called an original birth certificate.

If there is NO standard birth certificate on record, and the approval is given to accept a new Certificate of Live Birth, THEN that COB becomes a late birth registration, and the information on it is used to create a new birth record.

BUT, Hawaii DOES NOT label that birth record, a "Standard birth record," because it was created with a late birth, COB.

What if the request for amending the standard birth record is denied? Then the standard birth record remains in force.

What if the request for creating a late birth COB is denied? Then there will be no birth records of any kind.

Again, here are the rules:

If there is no standard birth certificate on file, an applicant is required to submit documentary evidence of the birth facts necessary to support of the registration of the late certificate of birth. If approved, the late birth certificate will be registered in place of the Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, which must then be surrendered to the Department of Health.

42 posted on 07/28/2009 2:25:41 PM PDT by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: MissTickly

Adoptions are sometimes listed in the news papers, too. I wonder.....If it was listed, are there details ?


43 posted on 07/28/2009 2:34:08 PM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: MissTickly
As far as Obomas birth being printed in the news paper....

The Honolulu Star-Bulletin, for example, according to its website, reprints birth information it receives from Hawaii's Department of Health (D).

44 posted on 07/28/2009 2:39:37 PM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: MissTickly
As far as Obomas birth being printed in the news paper....

The Honolulu Star-Bulletin, for example, according to its website, reprints birth information it receives from Hawaii's Department of Health (D).

45 posted on 07/28/2009 2:39:47 PM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: MissTickly; MHGinTN; Danae; Polarik; Admin Moderator; LucyT; Jim Robinson

Is this a dream sequence?

Is Jim Thompson shot in the final episode and then reappears the next season... in the shower?


46 posted on 07/28/2009 2:43:51 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: BP2

No, no, no! Not those pesky facts again! What’s wrong with you?

/s/s/s


47 posted on 07/28/2009 2:54:31 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: MissTickly
Something else....

Barack Obama stated that he was a few months old when the Bay of Pigs invasion happened. The Bay of Pigs invasion took place on April 1961. Obama claims to have been born on Aug 4th 1961, four months after the event. What if in reality Obama was born prior to April 1961?

48 posted on 07/28/2009 2:55:16 PM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: MissTickly

I get it.

If he has an AMENDED certificate, it is proof he was adopted, and THAT calls into question his immigration status because of issues of Dual Citizenship!

WOW

man, and I though I was the only one dealing with the State of Hawaii Vital Statistics in trying to figure out a discrepancy!

If he has an AMENDED Certificate, It’s GAME ON!

You may have figured out the right question to ask, and it was sitting there right in front of the world all along.

Not, to get the answer....


49 posted on 07/28/2009 2:55:42 PM PDT by Danae (I AM JIM THOMPSON - Conservative does not equal Republican. Conservative does not compromise.)
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To: MissTickly

I get it.

If he has an AMENDED certificate, it is proof he was adopted, and THAT calls into question his immigration status because of issues of Dual Citizenship!

WOW

man, and I though I was the only one dealing with the State of Hawaii Vital Statistics in trying to figure out a discrepancy!

If he has an AMENDED Certificate, It’s GAME ON!

You may have figured out the right question to ask, and it was sitting there right in front of the world all along.

Now, to get the answer....


50 posted on 07/28/2009 2:56:01 PM PDT by Danae (I AM JIM THOMPSON - Conservative does not equal Republican. Conservative does not compromise.)
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To: wintertime; MissTickly

MissTickly,
Please pardon any perceived meanness. I honestly couldn’t make out what the bottom line to all this was supposed to be. Now I do, and it is QUITE interesting! And - if there’s an AMENDED BC on file, then it really does show that the COLB we were shown was not the real thing. Not if the amended BC has Barry Soetoro, father Lolo Soetoro, mother Stanley Ann Soetoro. That’s why Obama can’t afford to release what’s on file. (Not to mention the Indonesian citizenship angle.)


51 posted on 07/28/2009 2:59:30 PM PDT by Genoa
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To: MissTickly
“I think she’s trying to say, that maybe, just maybe the little people in Hawaii who are guarding the BC, may know something, and will tell us, if we ask it in the right way.”

What was the name of the doctor who delivered Oboma? Is that a legitimate question not guarded by law?

If Oboma was born prior to the date he claims, it would explain how he was born in Kenya and later moved to Hawii were he was given a certificate of live birth, but was not actually born there. He was already a few months old. THAT'S why he cannot let us see that document.

Maybe his Bay of Pigs comment told us more than he wanted us to know.

52 posted on 07/28/2009 3:01:33 PM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: Genoa

Can you see why I was floored but this sudden change of heart? His kneee-jerk reaction left me dubstruck. I know in my gut I had something to do with this.

Isn’t this the simple information we’ve all been waiting for?

Obama’s been purposefully manipulating kenyan news and his grandmother to distract us. He wouldn’t dare plant anything in the news in this country.

But nothing can get around that AP photo of the school records AND confirmation that Hawaii does hold an AMENDED Birth Certificate in accordance to the law. No matter how hard he tries to manipulate them.

I am a Hillary Supporter—I hope I had something to do with last night.


53 posted on 07/28/2009 3:13:15 PM PDT by MissTickly
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To: MissTickly
capitol.hawaii.gov

§338-20.5 Adoption; foreign born persons. (a) The department of health shall establish a Hawaii certificate of birth for a person born in a foreign country and for whom a final decree of adoption has been entered in a court of competent jurisdiction in Hawaii, when it receives the following:

(1) A properly certified copy of the adoption decree, or certified abstract thereof on a form approved by the department; and

(2) A copy of any investigatory report and recommendation which may have been prepared by the director of social services; and

(3) A report on a form to be approved by the department of health setting forth the following:

(A) Date of assumption of custody;

(B) Sex;

(C) Color or race;

(D) Approximate age of child;

(E) Name and address of the person or persons adopting said child;

(F) Name given to child by adoptive parent or parents;

(G) True or probable country of birth.

54 posted on 07/28/2009 3:16:54 PM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: MissTickly

“I am a Hillary supporter. . .”

/ / / / / /

So - Not all birthers are right-wing nut cases!! Who knew?


55 posted on 07/28/2009 3:20:58 PM PDT by Genoa
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To: MissTickly
See post 52...Now see this....


56 posted on 07/28/2009 3:21:50 PM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: MissTickly

So you are thinking your question about an Amended Birth Certificate is what made her do a press release?

If it is Amended.... is it perhaps because he was adopted by his grandparents upon returning to Hawaii from Indonesia? If that is the case, does his amended birth certificate state who his parents WERE... AS in Ann and Lolo Soetoro?

I am a little confused, what do you think the ultimate relevance of this is?

Or is it just the fact that you may have figured out that he has an amended certificate? And that is the document we should be demanding?

Thank you by the way! :)


57 posted on 07/28/2009 3:22:32 PM PDT by Danae (I AM JIM THOMPSON - Conservative does not equal Republican. Conservative does not compromise.)
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To: concerned about politics

And your point?


58 posted on 07/28/2009 3:23:36 PM PDT by Genoa
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To: Danae

Let me say that I think Janice Okuba and Fukino are more than happy to carry out their jobs in accordance to the law. If you know what I mean.

And we cannot expect them to do otherwise.

“You may have figured out the right question to ask, and it was sitting there right in front of the world all along.

Not, to get the answer....”


59 posted on 07/28/2009 3:25:46 PM PDT by MissTickly
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To: MissTickly

So it is a matter of finding the right legal question they CAN answer.


60 posted on 07/28/2009 3:37:39 PM PDT by Danae (I AM JIM THOMPSON - Conservative does not equal Republican. Conservative does not compromise.)
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