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China: US submarines emerge in show of military might
SCMP ^ | 07/04/10 | Greg Torode

Posted on 07/04/2010 12:15:19 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster

South China Morning Post

July 4, 2010 Sunday

NEWS; Pg. 1

935 words

US submarines emerge in show of military might

Submarines show up in E Asia ports in show of US military might;

Message unlikely to be lost on Beijing as 3 vessels turn up in Asian ports

Greg Torode Chief Asia correspondent

In a scarcely noticed move last Monday, three of America's largest submarines surfaced in Asia-Pacific ports in a show of force by the US Seventh Fleet not seen since the end of the cold war.

The appearance of the USS Michigan in Pusan, South Korea, the USS Ohio in Subic Bay, in the Philippines, and the USS Florida in the strategic Indian Ocean outpost of Diego Garcia not only reflects the trend of escalating submarine activity in East Asia, but carries another threat as well.

The three Ohio-class submarines have all been recently converted from carrying cold-war-era nuclear ballistic missiles to other weapons - improved intelligence sensors, special operations troops and, significantly, a vast quantity of Tomahawk cruise missiles, a manoeuvrable low-flying weapon designed to strike targets on land.

(Excerpt) Read more at 6.lexisnexis.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: america; china; showofforce; submarine
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1 posted on 07/04/2010 12:15:23 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: TigerLikesRooster; PAR35; AndyJackson; Thane_Banquo; nicksaunt; MadLibDisease; happygrl; ...

P!


2 posted on 07/04/2010 12:16:09 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (The way to crush the bourgeois is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

What in the world would prompt this provocation? Aren’t we a bit involved everywhere else? Maybe the subs have pictures of Obama bowing...or white flags painted on them. /s


3 posted on 07/04/2010 12:22:11 AM PDT by Outlaw Woman (Blessed Is The Nation Whose God is the Lord. Psalm 33:12)
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To: Outlaw Woman

It’s not a provocation. The headline is misleading. The article states where they appeared


4 posted on 07/04/2010 12:36:57 AM PDT by chuck_the_tv_out ( <<< click my name: now featuring Freeper classifieds)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
How many SSBN's do we still have in the Fleet?

More to the point, how many Trident warheads?

5 posted on 07/04/2010 12:45:02 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: chuck_the_tv_out

Interesting.

It does change the equation a bit, because once those boats submerge, they could be anywhere. China’s ASW capabilities have grown, but hell, WE can’t reliably find Ohio class subs. They’re just too quiet.

Carrier battle groups are flashy, but China has worked long and hard to counter that threat. Now, however, any estimates a Chinese war planner might have regarding the correlation of forces in a particular region are going to be suspect.


6 posted on 07/04/2010 12:46:27 AM PDT by Ronin
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Put the FEAR in the Commie bastards! A joint US-Taiwan-Japan-Australia-India-S. Korea exercise in the region would be perfect, a la:

Malabar 07

7 posted on 07/04/2010 12:51:37 AM PDT by James C. Bennett
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To: TigerLikesRooster
China has been mouthy.

China Reform Monitor, June 30, 2010:

June 21:

China’s military buildup may be undermining the country’s relations with Japan. China is estimated to have about 400 nuclear warheads and is building new missiles including the Dong Feng 31A, an intercontinental ballistic missile with a range of 14,000 kilometers. The shorter-range Dong Feng 21C missile has Japan well within its range and China’s new anti-ship ballistic missile travels at supersonic speeds. The People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is also constructing underground bases for nuclear missiles in mountainous areas in Henan and Shanxi provinces, aimed at protecting them from preemptive strikes. "If we place U.S. aircraft carriers and U.S. bases in Japan within the range of our missiles, the U.S. fleets will not be able to enter the western Pacific freely. As a result, we will make the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty ineffective," said a PLA source in comments. The PLA has also developed state-of-the-art Song-class and Kilo-class submarines with quiet propulsion technologies that make them difficult to detect. According to the International Herald Tribune (Asahi), the Japanese Defense Ministry asserts Chinese destroyers have been detected near Miyakojima island and Okinotorishima island five times since 2008.

8 posted on 07/04/2010 12:54:59 AM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hussein: Islamo-Commie from Kenya)
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To: Outlaw Woman
Awesome, what they're saying is that China had no idea where these subs were.
Just a good old cold war warning, we can see you, you can't see us.
Osubs would have asked for permission.
9 posted on 07/04/2010 1:03:37 AM PDT by this_ol_patriot
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To: TigerLikesRooster

USS Florida SSGN 728

USS Florida's tomahawk SLCMs.


10 posted on 07/04/2010 1:05:47 AM PDT by Daaave ( 'All I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by')
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To: Outlaw Woman

It is not a provocation. It is a reminder to China and our allies that those submarines are always there, just under water. China has been flexing their military muscle by increasing their naval presence in that area so they needed a reminder.

We only surfaced and brought into strategic ports three of the many out there.


11 posted on 07/04/2010 1:08:15 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
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To: Ronin
"It does change the equation a bit,"

It would be a little disconcerting to ChiComs to suddenly have tactical threats just pop up out of nowhere.

Especially, since the Red Chinese just made a big deal about changing their defense budget from 80% Army 10% Air Force and 10% Navy, to 50% 25% and 25% respectively.

Then there is their new generation fighter. And Communist China recently boasted about finally acquiring enough missiles to defeat Taiwan.

yitbos

12 posted on 07/04/2010 1:16:21 AM PDT by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds.")
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To: TigerLikesRooster
For Subic Bay these are routine scheduled visits. The Santa Fe was there last December and the Houston in March. However the December visit was the first since 1991..

They have been staying for about 5 days for R & R in Olangapo

13 posted on 07/04/2010 1:23:39 AM PDT by montanajoe
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To: montanajoe

When did 7th Fleet ships start returning to Subic Bay?


14 posted on 07/04/2010 1:29:30 AM PDT by Ronin
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To: montanajoe; All
They have been staying for about 5 days for R & R in Olangapo

Ohhh, Olongapo? Me love you LONG TIME!
15 posted on 07/04/2010 1:29:30 AM PDT by notdownwidems (Vote Republican! We're 1/10 of 1% better than the other guys!)
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To: Ronin

Surface ships have been coming in and out since about 2005 that I can remember. As I think about it there may have been a couple of submarines in 2008 that came down from Japan.


16 posted on 07/04/2010 1:39:30 AM PDT by montanajoe
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To: notdownwidems
Olongapo has changed since the old days. They built a fair sized shopping mall right across from the main gate bridge ...

But I'm sure they will still find as much R & R as they can stand in the PI..

17 posted on 07/04/2010 1:43:11 AM PDT by montanajoe
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To: Mind-numbed Robot; lentulusgracchus
From wiki:
The Ohio class is a class of nuclear-powered  submarines used by the United States Navy. The United States has 18 Ohio-class submarines:

    * 14 nuclear-powered SSBNs (ballistic missile submarines), each armed with 24 Trident II SLBMs; they are also known as "Trident" submarines, and provide the sea-based leg of the nuclear triad of the United States strategic nuclear weapons arsenal
    * 4 nuclear-powered SSGNs (cruise missile submarines), each capable of carrying 154 Tomahawk cruise missiles with conventional warheads

18 posted on 07/04/2010 1:55:46 AM PDT by SeeSharp
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To: SeeSharp
Thanks for the details. In addition to the Ohio class submarines: ... the Pentagon is shifting 60 per cent of its 53 fast-attack submarines to the Pacific - a process that is now virtually complete.

60% of 53 is 31.8. I would hate to be on that .8 submarine.

19 posted on 07/04/2010 2:14:47 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
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To: montanajoe
Olongapo has changed since the old days. They built a fair sized shopping mall right across from the main gate bridge ...

What about the old madam who used to convoy around Olongapo picking up the receipts from her cathouses in a couple of Ma Deuce-equipped Jeeps?

I heard about her from a dues-paid member of the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club, back in the day.

Her, and San Miguel beer. After the runs go away, you're addicted for life, or something like that.

20 posted on 07/04/2010 2:24:50 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: SeeSharp
Thanks for the data update.

Word wrap is your friend.

21 posted on 07/04/2010 2:27:33 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus
...how many Trident warheads?

Trident missiles are submarine-launched ballistic missiles with multiple independently-targetable reentry vehicle (MIRV) capability. Thus, a single Trident missile can carry multiple warheads.

Trident missiles are carried by fourteen active U.S. Navy Ohio class submarines, with U.S. warheads, and four Royal Navy Vanguard class submarines, with British warheads.

For a comprehensive listing of the number of nuclear warheads currently deployed, their megatonnage, their programmed targets, exact geographical positions, and command codes, please refer to Barack Obama's personal website: http:/justgivepeaceachance_BHO.com

Regards,

22 posted on 07/04/2010 2:40:11 AM PDT by alexander_busek
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To: PhilDragoo
[Chicom bragging in Article]
"If we place U.S. aircraft carriers and U.S. bases in Japan within the range of our missiles, the U.S. fleets will not be able to enter the western Pacific freely. As a result, we will make the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty ineffective," said a PLA source in comments.

Some armchair Napoleon has been doing too many tabletop exercises and getting his way with the referees.

Wanna try it for real, Binky?

Oh, and hit us again with that quote .... the one about being willing to "share the Central Pacific" with us.

23 posted on 07/04/2010 3:25:21 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: alexander_busek
LOL .....

I think I read that the U.S. Tridents have buses for 10 warheads each ("up to ...."), and the British use their Chevaline bus loaded with four warheads of higher yield.

Or I suppose they could each loft a single warhead that would make most of western China uninhabitable for the next 8,000 years.

24 posted on 07/04/2010 3:30:01 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: James C. Bennett

Now that’s an impressive array of kick ass. You have air, land, sea, and no see right there in one package.


25 posted on 07/04/2010 4:10:51 AM PDT by politicalmerc (It's not their house; it's your home: GaHouseTrust.com)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Are these “journalists” really that stupid? This wasn’t aimed at China. China was probably fully briefed before hand.

It was aimed at the Norks.

Morons.


26 posted on 07/04/2010 4:37:47 AM PDT by piytar (Re: AlGore's latest - Karl Rove, you magnificent #######!)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Great responses so far, and very informative, but we must remember who hits the “go” button on these weapons - Slowbama, and I am very doubtful he’d ever unleash them, under any circumstance - any, and that includes a direct attack on CONUS. Like Lt. Shane Osborn’s 2001 gift of the EP-3 to China in 2001, Slobama wouldn’t surprise me by presenting one of our subs to the Reds. (being kinda sarcastic - only kinda)


27 posted on 07/04/2010 4:51:35 AM PDT by KingLudd
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To: notdownwidems

‘Til your sailor money is gone, anyhow!


28 posted on 07/04/2010 5:03:09 AM PDT by pingman (Price is what you pay, value is what you get.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
and the USS Florida in the strategic Indian Ocean outpost of Diego Garcia

Florida is at Diego Garcia for a pre-planned remote crew rotation. The SSGNs are Blue/Gold crewed just like the boomers are. However, since the SSGNs deploy much further out than the boomers, the crew rotations are done near the deployment sites with the crews being flown in/out from the CONUS bases, rather than bringing the boats all the way back home. IIRC the plan is to have the SSGNs themselves deploy for two-year tours encompassing 4 six-month crew rotations.
29 posted on 07/04/2010 5:16:37 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: lentulusgracchus; TigerLikesRooster
The three Ohio-class submarines have all been recently converted from carrying cold-war-era nuclear ballistic missiles to other weapons - improved intelligence sensors, special operations troops and, significantly, a vast quantity of Tomahawk cruise missiles, a manoeuvrable low-flying weapon designed to strike targets on land.

More to the point, how many Trident warheads?

I agree, lentulus. What treasonous moron came up with and ordered THAT idea?

NO Cheers, unfortunately.

g_w

30 posted on 07/04/2010 5:17:49 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

How are subs, during long voyages, stocked with fresh food like lettuce, eggs and bananas?

What about beer? Is there a liquor store on board?

How about exercise? Does the captain lead a morning PT by doing chin-ups on steam pipes?


31 posted on 07/04/2010 5:26:26 AM PDT by sergeantdave
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To: TigerLikesRooster
From the Sino-Russian Joint Statement of April 23, 1997:
"The two sides [China and Russia] shall, in the spirit of partnership, strive to promote the multipolarization of the world and the establishment of a new international order."

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/HI29Ag01.html
____________________________________________________

"Joint war games are a logical outcome of the Sino-Russian Friendship and Cooperation Treaty signed in 2001, and reflect the shared worldview and growing economic ties between the two Eastern Hemisphere giants."

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed092605a.cfm
____________________________________________________

From the Russian News and Information Agency:
July 27, 2006
"'I am determined to expand relations with Russia,' Chavez, known as an outspoken critic of what he calls the United States' unilateralism, told the Russian leader, adding that his determination stemmed from their shared vision of the global order.":
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060727/51913498.html
____________________________________________________

We are creating a new world, a balanced world. A new world order, a multipolar world,” Chavez told reporters during a visit to Communist China, one of many. His “new world order” includes [RUSSIA], China, Iran,... and a significantly weakened United States, he explained.

Resurgent Communism in Latin America
by Alex Newman, March 16, 2010:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/world-mainmenu-26/south-america-mainmenu-37/3122-resurgent-communism-in-latin-america?tmpl=component&print=1&layout=default&page=

32 posted on 07/04/2010 5:42:10 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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Image and video hosting by TinyPic

The two sides [Democratic People's Republic of Korea and Russia] agreed to "promote and enhance friendly relations" in line with the joint declaration of July 19, 2000 and the Russia-DPRK friendship and good neighborly cooperation treaty of February 9, 2000.

Putin and Kim agreed during their talks to promote a Russian- DPRK political dialogue on the Korean issue and international affairs, and discussed many topical international problems, deputy head of the Russian presidential administration Sergei Prikhodko told reporters following the talks.

The two leaders spoke for an independent and peaceful solution to the issue of reunification of the Korean Peninsula, and against "any outside obstacles to this process" as "unacceptable."

http://www.china.org.cn/english/2001/Aug/17008.htm

33 posted on 07/04/2010 5:42:41 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: grey_whiskers
I agree, lentulus. What treasonous moron came up with and ordered THAT idea?

What is moronic about a platform that can position itself undetected off an enemies shore and let loose 160 cruise missiles in a matter of minutes? Or which can deploy as many as 60 SEALs at a time?

34 posted on 07/04/2010 5:50:25 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Abraham Lincoln: For when it happened too long ago to blame on George W. Bush)
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To: lentulusgracchus
How many SSBN's do we still have in the Fleet?

14.

More to the point, how many Trident warheads?

Roughly 2700.

35 posted on 07/04/2010 5:53:23 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Abraham Lincoln: For when it happened too long ago to blame on George W. Bush)
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To: PhilDragoo
The PLA has also developed state-of-the-art Song-class and Kilo-class submarines with quiet propulsion technologies that make them difficult to detect.

By basing their entire submarine fleet inside a hollowed-out mountain on Hianan Island, they have made it real convient for us to target it. We fly a couple of nuclear-tipped Tomahawks into the entrance and it's goodby subs!

We also now have the capability to track subs from space using Synthetic Aperture Radar(SAR) which allow us to track the sub's wake. And China's Pacific shelf is too shallow for their subs to get deep enough to escape detection until they get far out into the Pacific.

36 posted on 07/04/2010 6:11:11 AM PDT by Tonytitan
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Great read. Thanks for all the postings


37 posted on 07/04/2010 6:47:46 AM PDT by Rannug ("When you make peaceful protest impossible, you make violent protest inevitable." JFK)
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To: TigerLikesRooster; AdmSmith; Berosus; bigheadfred; blueyon; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; ...
Thanks TigerLikesRooster.
In a scarcely noticed move last Monday, three of America's largest submarines surfaced in Asia-Pacific ports in a show of force by the US Seventh Fleet not seen since the end of the cold war. The appearance of the USS Michigan in Pusan, South Korea, the USS Ohio in Subic Bay, in the Philippines, and the USS Florida in the strategic Indian Ocean outpost of Diego Garcia not only reflects the trend of escalating submarine activity in East Asia... have all been recently converted from carrying cold-war-era nuclear ballistic missiles to other weapons -- improved intelligence sensors, special operations troops and, significantly, a vast quantity of Tomahawk cruise missiles, a manoeuvrable low-flying weapon designed to strike targets on land.

38 posted on 07/04/2010 7:33:58 AM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: notdownwidems

Short trip to the NEPA Hut in Angeles city.


39 posted on 07/04/2010 7:43:43 AM PDT by Always Independent
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Thanks for the ping.


40 posted on 07/04/2010 7:49:59 AM PDT by GOPJ (There is nothing unexpected about the failure of socialism/communism.freeper pieceofthepuzzle)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

I wonder if we even have any working nukes anymore. I don’t trust computer simulations, and I don’t trust the past several Presidents, the Chinese, or the Russians.


41 posted on 07/04/2010 8:13:43 AM PDT by PghBaldy (Like the Ft Hood Killer, James Earl Ray was just stressed when he killed MLK Jr.)
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To: montanajoe
One of my buddies caught something on Olangapo that is a mystery to modern and witch doctor medicine. Wonder if the place can still be smelled three miles away.
42 posted on 07/04/2010 8:17:29 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Sometimes you have to go to dark places to get to the light....)
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To: lentulusgracchus
I believe we still have about a dozen Tridents operational.

At any given time we should have 2-3 at sea.

Each Trident carries 12 x 24 = 288 100kt warheads with a range of 6,000 nautical miles.

43 posted on 07/04/2010 8:42:06 AM PDT by Mariner (USS Tarawa, VQ3, Uss Benjamin Stoddert, NAVCAMS WestPac, 7th Fleet, Navcommsta Puget Sound)
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To: montanajoe
Olongapo has changed since the old days.

From the Old days (1930s)

and


44 posted on 07/04/2010 9:56:03 AM PDT by Oatka ("A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." –Bertrand de Jouvenel)
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To: Oatka
That's cool thanks for posting that. My dad was through there in a couple of times in 45-46 I'd always wondered what it may have looked like back then that helps..
45 posted on 07/04/2010 11:41:39 AM PDT by montanajoe
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To: mad_as_he$$
We lived near there in 2007-8 had definitely changed since my first trip in 69-70.

There are a few big resort hotels on the road from Olongapo to Subic now but the area down by the base is pretty quite. It did pick up a bit for a few years when FedEx had their Asian hub there but they moved that to China in 2009. I did not notice any unusual smells (for the PI anyway) as there is usually the breeze coming of the bay..

They just finished the new toll road from there to Angeles last year its only about an hour drive so they are hoping that will bring more tourists.

I'm going back to the PI in August looking forward to it as always and plan to spend some time in Olongapo.

46 posted on 07/04/2010 12:19:36 PM PDT by montanajoe
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To: lentulusgracchus

14. And a LOT.


47 posted on 07/04/2010 2:23:12 PM PDT by OCCASparky (Obama--Playing a West Wing fantasy in a '24' world.)
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To: chuck_the_tv_out

They just want to make a port stop and pick up some of those Chinese fireworks:)


48 posted on 07/04/2010 3:21:17 PM PDT by katiedidit1
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To: TigerLikesRooster

>> In a scarcely noticed move last Monday, three of America’s largest submarines surfaced in Asia-Pacific ports in a show of force by the US Seventh Fleet not seen since the end of the cold war.

First we advertise our nuclear might, commit to restricting its development and testing, and now it’s reported we’re revealing our deep blue might for the first time in decades.

What’s next, “International Despot Tours of the U.S. Pentagon” ???


49 posted on 07/04/2010 6:05:00 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Your Hope has been redistributed. Here's your Change.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

An interesting strategic move. I would not have been surprised had Ronald Reagan or perhaps George W. Bush were President. I’m not sure what message Barack Obama would be trying to send to his friends in China. He is, after all, an ideological “cousin” of the Maoist brand of Communism in China.

I think perhaps he might be sending a message to North Korea more than China. Perhaps he could be hinting to China that if the Norkies were to try something, we wouldn’t take our eyes of of Taiwan...No, I don’t believe it for a second. I don’t believe Obama would go to war with China over Taiwan EVEN though we HAVE promised to defend them if they are attacked....

Hmmm...Could he be warning AUstralia’s new government — or Japan’s?!


50 posted on 07/04/2010 8:39:41 PM PDT by patriot preacher (To be a good American Citizen and a Christian IS NOT a contradiction. (www.mygration.blogspot.com))
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