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New-gen submarines: Pakistan steals a march on India
The Tribune, India ^ | January 20,2011 | Ajay Banerjee

Posted on 01/22/2011 7:39:37 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki

New-gen submarines: Pakistan steals a march on India

Signs deal with China to co-produce six subs with the technology that India wants

These could tilt balance in favour of the Pak Navy in Arabian Sea

Ajay Banerjee/TNS

New Delhi, January 20 Even as India has announced its intent to have new generation diesel-electric submarines, Pakistan has gone ahead and signed a deal with long-standing ally China to produce submarines with the same technology that India wants.

The Pakistan Navy and China’s Ship Building Corporation signed a deal that got the seal of finality during the visit of Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao to Pakistan last December. Indian security agencies in know of the matter have cautioned the government that this could tilt the balance in favour of the Pakistan Navy in the Arabian Sea.

India is looking to spend Rs 50,000 crore to acquire six new diesel-electric submarines that will be equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) technology to boost operational capabilities. Conventional diesel-electric submarines have to surface every couple of days for oxygen to recharge their batteries. A submarine using AIP technology can stay submerged for 12-15 days at a stretch, thus increasing its capacity to hunt down enemy warships without being detected. Nuclear powered submarines can stay underwater for even longer periods.

Under the latest agreement, China will co-produce six AIP technology submarines with Pakistan. Currently, the neighbouring navy has only one submarine -- PNS Hamza. Pakistan is also looking at an AIP system produced by a French or German maker to fit on to the Chinese made hull of the vessel, said an official.

What is worrying for India is the known pace of Chinese construction. China could well provide three-four new generation AIP technology submarines to the neigbouring country within two years. The Chinese had supplied four frigates to the Pakistan Navy in 18 months flat! The two nations have also co-produced the single-engine J-17 fighter that was inducted into the Pakistan Air Force last summer.

For India, it could take upto five years to induct its first such submarine, as it will have to go through the process of trying out offers from various global bidders before ordering the vessels.

The Indian Navy has a bigger fleet in terms of number but it is dwindling and will be down to eight conventional diesel-electric vessels by 2015. By then, the first of the six under-construction Scorpene submarines will join the fleet followed by five more till 2018. The AIP technology vessels will follow later. Going by estimates, Pakistan would complete the induction of its fleet of AIP technology vessels by the time India starts off with its line of such submarines.

However, India will maintain its edge over Pakistan in case of nuclear-powered submarines. It hopes to induct the Akula-II Class attack submarine K-152 Nerpa on a 10-year lease from Russia in the next few weeks while the first indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant is expected to be inducted by early-2012.

Indian Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma has already declared that nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant would be on ‘deterrent patrol’ to provide the ability of a retaliatory ‘second strike’ if the country faces a nuclear attack.

What Worries India

The Chinese are known for their pace of construction and could provide three-four new generation submarines to Pakistan within two years.

It could take India upto five years to induct the first of its diesel-electric submarine.

The Indian Navy fleet is dwindling and will be down to eight conventional diesel-electric vessels by 2015.

TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: china; pakistan; ssk; submarine

Chinese Yuan class submarine

1 posted on 01/22/2011 7:39:39 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Put you ear to the ground in El Paso TX and you can hear them calling quarters on that Chinese Sub in the Yellow Sea.

2 posted on 01/22/2011 8:28:40 PM PST by Mariner (USS Tarawa, VQ3, USS Benjamin Stoddert, NAVCAMS WestPac, 7th Fleet, Navcommsta Puget Sound)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Problem is India decided to skip industrialization and go from algriculture to high tech/service economy in one jump. Problem is you will produce many researchers, engineers and etc but not enough technicians and vocational skill workers (ala machinists, mechanics and etc). China has a huge skill workforce of these types of workers that allows them to assemble, backward engineer, build and etc items manufactured all over the world if the desire to. They still lack innovation at a wide scale, but they do have a sizable core of government sponsor researchers and engineers for their military projects. The J-10 fighter is a milestone because it was achieved by her own engineers and scientists solving gaps in her knowledge base (ie fly by wire technology, advanced materials for jet engines). Her stealth fighter project is probably testing that group of people skills and self reliance because less foreign aid is available when compared to the J-10 fighter program.
China did have a major setback on ECCM/AEW research when one of her prototype AWACS aircraft crashed with a sizeable number of very smart EW scientists and engineers aboard an IL-76 size test aircraft. Other then that, China has a sufficient size research/engineering pool and more important a large technician pool to support the projects. India needs this second group of tech workers if she wants to be self sufficient and efficient in her mil/commercial R&D. Blueprints and prototypes are useless if there isn’t enough technicians and machinists.

3 posted on 01/22/2011 9:22:57 PM PST by Fee
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To: sukhoi-30mki

YUAN OR ZUAN CLASS IS STILL A NOISY CLASS SUBMARINE TYPE 041 lol IS based ON SILENT KILLER KILO CLASS RUSSIAN SUBMARINE with noise level upto 15DB in 11knots which is still higher than classy KILO 7DB in 11 knots speed.BTW INDIA HAVE 2 nuke SSBM arihant class 8K TONNE much bigger than the 1st INS ARIHANT launched on DEC 2009 and will join navy by 2012.. India had leased akula class Nuclear SSN for 10years which will join navy by coming march
Atlast here is the DRDO LATEST PRESS RELEASE on jan2011

The achievements of Naval group of laboratories

1.Successful technical trials of the Advanced
Torpedo Defence System (ATDS) – Mareech.

2.Successful demonstration of Sea Bed Array Sonar
for detection of submarine in littoral water.

3.System development of Ship-launched Heavy Weight

4. Realisation of Air Independent Energy module under Fuel Cell Programme.

5.Induction of Varuna EW system.

4 posted on 01/23/2011 7:51:02 AM PST by STARSCREAM1987
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