Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Toshiba submarine technology scandal - Navy vets, please refresh our memories!
Vanity | 10/9/01 | Self

Posted on 10/09/2001 7:42:02 AM PDT by Bill Rice

Can someone please provide links or explain the particulars (who/what/when/how) of the silent propulsion technology transfer that Toshiba sold to the Russians?

Someone recently asked me about it, and I couldn't explain it very well.

I haven't been able to find anything on the web. I just remember Toshiba screwed us, but not the details.

America needs to be reminded, our memories are way too short!


TOPICS: Free Republic; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 10/09/2001 7:42:02 AM PDT by Bill Rice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Bill Rice
In the 80's, Toshiba sold the Soviets high tech numerically controlled milling machines capable of producing submarine propellers that produced significantly quieter noise signatures than the previous Soviet technology.
2 posted on 10/09/2001 7:44:37 AM PDT by LouD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bill Rice
My memory is foggy but I believe it had to do with propellor design. Propellor cavitation is very noisy.
3 posted on 10/09/2001 7:44:48 AM PDT by cinFLA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bill Rice
Do a Google search on "Toshiba submarine scandal". That turns up lots of stuff.

The gist of it is that Toshiba sold the Soviets advanced machine tooling capable of making special propellers that run much quieter than normal props. The Soviets had no such machining technology at the time.

4 posted on 10/09/2001 7:46:56 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bill Rice
The best link I found is
http://www.japanlaw.com/lawletter/april87/fdf.htm.

This from a google search on "USSR toshiba propeller milling". Also, the Federation of American Scientist FAQ on the Victor submarine seems to imply that in addition to the propeller milling machine advanced computer technology for fire control was also exported to the USSR.

5 posted on 10/09/2001 7:57:18 AM PDT by ExpandNATO
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bill Rice
As I recall, one Japanese writer then proclaimed to the world that due to Japan's "dominance" in advanced technology like this, Japan could force the US and USSR to remain at peace, as neither country could invent such things on its own. He further stated that that made Japan the most powerful nation on earth.

It was soon thereafter that a lot of stores in my area (KC at the time) began dumping all Toshiba goods at cut rates.

Believe the old 80s book, The Japan That Can Say No,details the scandal, and it's in that book that the claim of Japanese hegemony is made.

6 posted on 10/09/2001 8:08:26 AM PDT by kaylar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog
What were the end effects of this treason as to the operating procedures our subs used before and after? What sanctions if any did Toshiba "suffer"?

I'm hoping this thread catches the attention of some Navy or submarine freepers. One really lamblasted Toshiba a while back, but I don't remember who he was.

7 posted on 10/09/2001 8:09:28 AM PDT by Bill Rice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: cinFLA
Toshiba sold the Soviets advanced CNC machine tools through a Swedish subsidiary. I cannot remember the name of the company in Sweden. I was working for a branch of the Defense Intellegence Agency's Office of Technology Transfer at the time. We STRONGLY WARNED Toshiba that this sale should not be made due to the fact that it would give the Soviets capability to manufacture large, precision matched gear sets. Precision matched, well machined gears run considerably quieter, last longer, and are more reliable. These gears could be used in the gear boxes of submarines, tanks and other military hardware. The big concern was submarines due to the fact that very quiet gears make them difficult to locate. The Soviets big problem at the time was the manufacture of precision parts.
To this day, no one in my family will buy anything made by Toshiba.
8 posted on 10/09/2001 8:09:38 AM PDT by wjcsux
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: wjcsux
These are all accurate descriptions. We covered this in our 1984 book, "Trident," a history of the Trident sub program. My co-author, and first name listed, was Dalgleish.
9 posted on 10/09/2001 8:11:22 AM PDT by LS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: wjcsux
It was Kongsberg, in Norway.
10 posted on 10/09/2001 8:16:41 AM PDT by j_tull
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: wjcsux
They said they were sorry. Isn't that enough?
11 posted on 10/09/2001 8:35:04 AM PDT by Imnidiot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Imnidiot
LOL. Like that handle.
12 posted on 10/09/2001 9:17:08 AM PDT by Texas_Jarhead
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Bill Rice
sheesh. have not you heard of 'search engines'? Just hit Toshiba, submarine, scandal, secrets, etc. and you would probably get a mountain of stuff. Google, Northern Light, Yahoo, Alta Vista.
13 posted on 10/09/2001 9:23:25 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bill Rice
I'm an Air Force vet and I remember when it happened. They yanked all Toshiba products off the shelves in the BX.

I also worked for Toshiba for 2.5 years as a help desk tech, doing telephone based tech support for their laptop/desktop/server systems, and guess what? The Navy now has Toshiba computers all over their ships. Used to talk to the mine sweeper fleet quite a bit for tech support, and talked to a couple heavies as well that had Toshiba machines all networked together.

14 posted on 10/09/2001 9:51:09 AM PDT by Tennessee_Bob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: LouD
Yeah. Advanced milling machines is what came to my mind. Computerized numerical milling machines. I'll bet such machines are all over these days.

Were state of the art back then.

15 posted on 10/09/2001 10:19:45 AM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: AmericanInTokyo
I did one search on Toshiba+submarines, and came up blank.
My main reason for posting this was to raise awareness with the younger Freepers!
16 posted on 10/09/2001 10:50:25 AM PDT by Bill Rice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Bill Rice
Boycott bump!
17 posted on 10/11/2001 10:56:52 AM PDT by abolitionist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson