Skip to comments.How Tennessee Could Be About To Start A Constitutional Crisis (Article V)
Posted on 02/22/2017 10:54:09 PM PST by Perseverando
The State Senate of Tennessee has laid the legislative groundwork for something that hasn't been done in the United States of America since the Constitutional Convention of 1787 in Philadelphia. With a vote of 27-3, the Tennessee Senate has voted to call a "convention of the states" in order to draft and pass an amendment to the Constitution that would require balanced budgets to be passed every year.
For those who are little fuzzy on their high school U.S. history knowledge, the Tennessean explains that the U.S. Constitution can be amended in two ways. The first would require a two-thirds majority vote in both chambers of Congress, an unlikely outcome in today's hyper-partisan political arena. The second, on the other hand, requires that two-thirds of the states (34 in total) pass a resolution calling for a Constitutional Convention.
There are two ways to propose amendments to the Constitution. The first and more traditional method is through a two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate. Then the amendment is sent to the state legislatures, where it needs ratification by three-fourths or 38 states in order to become law. Nearly all 27 amendments have followed this path.
But the Constitution also provides a second, more populist path to amending the document. If two-thirds or 34 states pass a resolution calling for a Constitutional Convention, delegates from all 50 states will meet to draft an amendment. This is what the Tennessee lawmakers are calling for in their resolution.
Of course, calls for a convention to pass a balanced budget amendment started in the 1970s and have failed each time. That said, with Republicans now controlling 32 state legislatures, this latest effort initiated by Tennessee seems to have the best chance of succeeding so far.
And while there have been close calls for Constitutional Conventions before, each time Congress has acted preemptively to stave off the need for a convention. In 1911, for example, 28 states of the required 32 passed a resolution calling for direct election of Senators before Congress intervened and drafted the Seventeenth Amendment instead.
27 amandments later it is demonstrably true that the Constitution is not, like the Bible, a finished work.
Agreed. The Constitutional Convention, if it is ever called, will be populated by Congress critters. They will use it to pass all kinds of amendments to steal more of our freedoms. You don’t actually think they will let the people have any say, do (collective) you?
1st amendment - remove religious and association clauses.
2nd amendment - gone.
3rd, 4th and 5th amendments - more government power.
6th, 7th and 8th amendments - probably stay the same, except for including no trials in national security cases.
9th and 10th amendments - erased.
They’ll probably add a “balanced budget” amendment so they can raise taxes anytime they want. They’ll make impeachment easier, except for themselves. The states will no longer have the right to call a Convention of States.
I think we are being set up. Leave the Constitution alone.
“The reason that amending the US Constitution allows for States in addition to Congress to make proposals, is because there are some things that Congress will fail to do on its own, whereas States will do things that Congress will not do.”
It also demonstrates and recognizes the fact that the people — via the states — ARE the government. I think that is implied in the comment but I want it to be clear to everyone reading this. The Founding Fathers truly were brilliant.
Yes...that’s a common evasion ploy also. Look again in the very article’s description and you will see that its measures aren’t allowed before 1808. You argue the only point you can with examples that violate the very article you seek to use. Good try.
The problem is...almost all the personal income tax is needed to pay for entitlements, on top of that we are servicing a 20 trillion dollar debt. The entire government, including the military runs on borrowed money. For this to work the entire government would have to be eliminated or all entitlements would have to cease immediately.
Amendments were designed as a benefit to the people to rein in the government. A new amendment cannot take away a privilege we now have.
18th Amendment (repealed by the 21st Amendment) was a ‘privilege’ taken away.
They bankrupted us to spread the wealth and destroy our economy.
A balanced budget doesnt reduce the size of government it only increases taxes.
Correct-a-mundo, sir! The willful blindness of others to this point still astounds me.
I care more about putting a ceiling on what the government can spend than a balanced budget....
...And if were going to have a States convention, even more importantly I want to see two amendment passed. One severely limiting the bureaucracies and regulations, and another doing away with the courts having the last say on interpreting the laws and constitution...
...Also we must make it harder to pass new laws. We have more than enough laws, make it so every new law must have 60% of senate and house votes. Old laws can be eliminated with 50% vote.
These, as we all here know, are already the Law of the Land. A1S8 gives the limits of the proper scope of govt (what they can(not) do; the other is that “The Congress shall have Power ... To make all Laws”. Never was it amended to allow Congress to succeed its authority to another branch, dept, agency, etc.
It’s the one fallacy of Levin’s CC: presuming MORE legalize will halt/turn-back the disregard and violations of our Constitution.
I would rather see more ‘bite’ put into judicial activism, deprivation of Rights under Color of Law and failure to read the full\plain English of the Constitution. IMO *that* is where the Constitution is ‘lacking’.
Couple that w/ rescinding any/all ‘perks’/benefits from the Federal Treasury (States wish to continue, the are more than welcome), *SOMETHING* to assist in rolling-out incumbents (95%+ re-election EVERY time? Somethings wrong there), and enforcing that *ALL* are equal under the law (exemptions are null/void)....
IMO, anything seeking to re-certify w/ more verbiage is mental masturbation.
Oh, I do not disagree in the least.
A Convention for Proposing Amendments is a plenary body, which could do every bad thing its opponents say it could.
I do doubt that leftist amendments could be ratified by 38 states, but in times of crisis or perceived crisis, it has certainly happened before.
38 states have to ratify ANY change with a vote by their respective legislatures.
Nothing that restricts the Bill of Rights would survive that.
The Second Amendment would be safe, and potentially expanded at a convention of the states.
It's already being changed... Every time we turn around the stinking lawyers in DC are rewriting our constitution by way of the liberal courts...
If the states don't start fighting back real soon a goodly portion of them will belong to Mexico....
It would have to be done quickly, while the GOP holds more than enough states to prevail at such a convention.
However, I am not sure of what can restrain such a convention from straying from singular purpose it might be called for, and then we are off into the unknown.
WE HAVE A BUDGET SURPLUS! RINO gov halsam want’s a damn gas tax raise. Our state gas tax is already higher than the federal gas tax. We are required to balance the budget yearly. TN is Open Carry State. NO INCOME TAX only a sales tax and what the call a Halls Income Tax on high investments. Rest is just sales tax.
Tenncare has been the biggest budget buster since it’s inception, and haslam wanting to import more refugees is going to make it worse. Tenncare has been downsized 4 times already due to cost over runs to the state budget.
This is BS FAKE NEWS.
To summarize from a previous post by GraceG:
1. Elect More Republicans - Failed due to RINO/Uni-party confluence.
2. Article V Convention of States to propose Amendments - Needed to try to take power from the federal government back to the states and reel in the federal leviathan.
3. State Nullification - Last ditch effort to try to take power back from the federal monster, though by this point it may be too late.
4. State Secession - Could either end up peaceably like the breakup of the Czechoslovakia in 1993 or a brutal:
5. Civil War II like the first one.... The longer we wait on #2, the more likely #3, then #4 and finally #5. .
So, do we do nothing and just wait for # 5?
Quick review: We need 34 states to pass an application, then Congress shall, by law, call a Convention of States as soon as it receives applications from 2/3 of the State Legislatures. That's 34 states. As of right now, there are 8 states that have applied using the Georgia language: AL, AK, FL, GA, IN, LA, OK, TN and 36 state legislative chambers or bodies have filed or passed resolutions. Amendments are proposed and voted on at the convention. Each Amendment must be ratified by 3/4 of the states in order to become part of the US Constitution. That's 38 states.
There are multiple arguments against a COS. Do not be dissuaded. In reality, there are so many checks and balances against a runaway convention that the risk is near zero. As nathanbefored said, It requires only 13 statehouse legislatures from 13 different states out of 99 legislatures in 50 states to block an amendment. The problem is not a runaway convention, the problem is getting any amendment through."
"There are far more political and legal constraints on a runaway convention than on a runaway Congress." - Robert Natelson
Most FReepers are aware of these links, but I post anyway for review and for people new to Article V. It is our responsibility to make Article V the most understood aspect of the US Constitution.
****Please see this summary video from Alabama first: Convention of States - Alabama Way to go Alabama! A great introduction!
***Another good introduction video Convention of States: The Plan to Restore America
Utah Rep. Nelson: The Constitution Hangs in the Balance A good five minute review
***For the Young People Overview of the COS Project at Washington Freedom Summit Laura Fennig, a COS Grassroots Coordinator, describes the COS Project plan and how you can get involved!
Convention of States Live! with Mike Farris
The Case for an Article V Convention. Great explanation of an Article V convention to the Massachusetts State Legislature.
**** Convention of States Lots of information here.
**** Article V Blog by Jacquerie. Excellent and worth following.
**** Mark Levin, Constitution Article V, and the Liberty Amendments A great overview of Article V.
Learn about the Convention of States The Problem, the Solution and the Strategy
Call a Convention A call for a Convention of States
Missouri state senator delivers amazing testimony (video) Reasoned speech on why we need an Article V Convention.
Article V Project to Restore Liberty Another good source.
A Summary of Mark Levins Proposed Amendments by Jacquerie
Citizens for Self-Governance: Convention of States Project Youtube hub - Lots of educational videos here
Curing Federal Dysfunction by Constitutional Amendment: A Primer Professor Rob Natelson
Our American Constitution, Article V Rob Natelson's Article V articles
We can fight the uniparty! States, the Natural Second Party by Jacquerie
Congress' Present Duty to Call a Convention:
Ulysses at the Mast: Democracy, Federalism, and the Sirens' Song of the Seventeenth Amendment by Jay Bybee. Repeal the 17th! Shorter Abstract here: Ulysses at the Mast, one page Abstract
****For those of you that still have doubts about the Article V process, please review: Responses To Convention Of States Opposition My initial concerns were resolved after reading these articles. My attitude now is Go For It!
A Single-Subject Convention Addresses the "runaway convention" fear.
John Birch Society Denies Its History and Betrays Its Mission The original Birchers were for an Article V Convention.
Publius Huldah vs. Article V: Introduction by Rodney Dodsworth
Update: Convention of States by the numbers The current State count
Assembly of State Legislatures Article V
***Indiana Statute - Duties of Article V Convention Delegates A good example for other states and one of the safeguards.
****State Initiation of Constitutional Amendments: A Guide for Lawyers and Legislative Drafters The Bible on Convention of States
**** State Legislators Article V Caucus State Legislators, Join up at this site!
Most State Legislatures are in session now. Send this list of links to your State Representatives and Senators here: Contact your State Legislators.
Excellent Article V Letter to a State Assemblyman by Jacquerie
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke.
Lets all work together to get this going!
Congress has that power every day that it's in session! Why do you trust Congress more?
The Article V wording for amending the Constitution via a process conducted independently by the States was led by a Virginian and close friend of George Washington, George Mason.
Both Washington and Mason were completely skeptical of the British influence and presence to make Americans second-class citizens, to tax Americans without agreement or consent, to impoverish Americans and buy out their estates and properties that had grown in splendor becoming attractive to the powerful and wealthy, many of these acts and threats emanating from the British Parliament and titled wealthy, persons with sinecures who had positioned to a more favorable light of the Crown and to associates and benefactors of the British Parliament who had their eye on the emerging commerce and wealth, and splendorous properties established in America, and who would use British military presence to intimidate and bring under control those with a mind of independence.
Mason and Washington were resistors of any and all elements, ideas, possibilities, provisions that would give the slightest opportunity for any force or presence, direct or seductive, to emerge via law or political assembly to dominate and subjugate the rights and freedoms of people and property owners.
Prior to 1776, both were members of the House of Burgesses, writing frequently in response to communications, developments, edicts of the British Parliament and the Crown.
They did not suddenly appear in 1776 or 1787 to assert a list of rights and freedoms, these qualities and perspectives were honed and ingrained in their characters over many. many years prior to 1776 after witnessing threats and consequences of remaining quiet, timid, apathetic to events around them.
Yes in their collective, they were brilliant but more than brilliant, they were experienced and driven by ***fear*** of what would certainly happen if they chose not to act.
Mason was insistent on establishing rights of the individual and rights of the people. His presence at the 1787 Convention assured that rights were not negotiable if there were to be a United States. It is a matter of historic record that the establishment of the Constitution and therefore the United States hung in the balance by the voice and views of George Mason, as the assembly knew that General George Washington who had won the freedom, would defer to his friend George Mason to speak for Virginia.
The Constitution was to be unanimously ratified which enabled the voice of Virginia to hold matters in the balance. As it was, the Bill of Rights was largely drawn from the pre-independence work of George Mason when he had served in the Virginia House of Burgesses, and Mason insisted on these amended rights as a condition of ratification, equivalently as a condition of the establishment of the United States.
Article V was weighed in the same balance as the Bill of Rights with George Mason insisting that the people be granted a means to amend without Congress or the Executive. Without his voice and insistence on the wording of Article V, there would be no Constitution and no United States.
Congress can propose amendments but states have to approve.
If delegates to any Convention are politicians (elected or appointed), then anything they propose will be accepted by the states.
The only way the Convention works is if politicians are excluded. Then it will be tied up in the courts until no one can remember what was proposed.
Which is also the case with an Article V convention.
If delegates to any Convention are politicians (elected or appointed), then anything they propose will be accepted by the states.
Why? That doesn't follow logically. Congress critters are politicians, too. Not all amendments proposed by Congress are ratified by the states.
Article V ping.
The article is incorrect. Georgia laid the basis for a convention of the states, and Tennessee was just one of 7 states that applied using Georgia's application language. As of today, there are 8 states that have applied for a convention to address term limits, a balanced budget and the restoration of federalism: AL, AK, FL, GA, IN, LA, OK, TN.
I apologize for the late flagging of this article and the extremely active thread that it has generated. I hit the hay early last night.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.